Last night at Open Soho, I had a debate with someone about how it’s much easier to be an entrepreneur in the USA. He was saying that other UK entrepreneurs and I should consider moving there because:
a) It’s easier to be an entrepreneur in America, Americans’ want to be seen to help people on their way up, they want to genuinely help others’ succeed whereas in the UK people like to see you fail, or if Brits seem like they are happy for you, it’s actually fake.
b) It’s easier to get cash. Americans’ will hear you pitch and give you a straight answer- no mid way, being kept in limbo etc, they are more inclined to take a risk.
c)Failure is seen as success, if you’ve had a business failure Americans will pat you on the back, whereas in the UK failure is a permanent mark on your business acumen.
I argued that the entrepreneurial community here in the UK is buzzing with vibrancy and is really coming into fruition with so many great entrepreneurs and startups. I could be at an entrepreneurial/tech event every night of the week if I wanted.
I also argued that whenever anyone gets good they seem to piss off to Silicon Valley and If the UK was to sustain an entrepreneurial community we have to have people who will give it a chance.
I’ve been to America many times and do find they have a positivity and attitude that sometimes lacks in the UK, but Is that just a cultural difference?
What do you think? Are there any Americans that now do business in the UK and have noticed a difference?
Are there any UK entrepreneurs wanting to head off to the US?
I’d be interested to know your thoughts:)
As someone that has just come back from Silicon Valley and meeting lots of VCs, I would agree entirely with what you say. There is a different attitude in the US, and it frustrates me because I really want to stay in the UK, and be a UK success story, but there are concerns that it may be hard here. I don’t think its other entrepreneurs though, I think its the rest of the people out there, who think its easy to run a company, and who think they are adding some kind of value to the world by posting anonymous and nasty comments on each announcement of a new company. We clearly need a critical analytical audience, and entrepreneurs don’t always get it right, but we bring down the whole community when we get just plain mean to entrepreneurs.
I like Paul Carr’s view on addressing anonymity in blog comments, and encourage TC to deploy it. It will make people think twice before venting in a public forum.
My two cents worth.
Alicia
Talking to a US VC at OpenCoffee told me that in San Francisco you not only get money but a whole set of invaluable contacts. – a package.
But the VCs are looking seriously for money – not just a chat – but once they accept what you are saying then … high speed elevator to heaven.
Here? Hot air and qualified offers of capital when we really want contacts and business development.
I could be wrong…. just my arrogant opinion.
I agree, If you want to say something mean at least have the balls to tell us who you are!
I have spoken to a few UK entrepreneurs who are seriously thinking of moving to Silicon Valley and it’s such a shame they are finding it a struggle here because of the negativity and attitude.
I really hope we don’t lose you Alicia as you are a great example of one of the UK’s leading entrepreneurs!
@borgard so you think VC’s in the UK don’t deliver?
‘UK people like to see you fail, or if Brits seem like they are happy for you, it’s actually fake.’ – I think you have hit the nail of the head here!
There is certainly differences in culture/ attitude but not just with experimentalism. It’s the same with taking exams!
Oh and I think we are looking at two individual problems here:
1. the attitudes of the entrepreneurial communities here in the UK compared with the US
2. the problem of people writing malicious comments anonymously on posts etc. -BUT i don’t think that’s a UK/USA issue as you only have to look at the crap Michael Arrington and Sarah Lacy get to see it’s not just UK based- That’s a problem with anonymity and the Internet.
VCs in the UK don’t have the right attitude, don’t really know why. (without being rude!) You tell me…
USA VCs (talking California I think) are tougher, but when the idea looks good you get a big package of support – country wide – (not just money), so everything is much easier.
I pitched VCs at the Excel Center about foot or electric operated toilet door handles so one does not have to touch wet toilet door handles when exiting a toilet )say in Starbucks). – health issues etc.
I got ridiculed by the VCs (I do not have a clue what you are talking about said one) and had to leave the stage – almost escorted of by security!
Good question! I’m glad people are raising this topic. I’ve given this a lot of thought myself in recent months. In a recent post about iTunes being the most expensive online music store, I found myself vigorously putting the case for Tesco Digital, a home-grown UK brand. I read the draft and though my post was a little too emotive, but I at the same time it felt right so I decided not to water it down:-
http://www.timacheson.com/Blog/2009/aug/itunes_is_most_expensive_music_download_shop
I was in Soho last night too. (Not for that event this time though – I’m based just around the corner.)
The UK is a very cynical country and I don’t think it is aimed towards entrepreneurs any more than it is towards sports people, politicians and the like. The press sells a lot more papers when someone fails than when someone succeeds, people love to read about how a politician got caught lying or the cricket team fell to pieces and got a hiding. The general public seems to be the same.
There are good things to be embraced with this attitude though. I’ve spent a lot of time in America and whilst the positivity is nice, it is often very fake and often misguided. I have seen people come up with some really crap ideas and everyone around them says yeah that is cool, you should do it. In the UK I think people are much more likely to be realistic about it – sometimes too negative – but at least you might think twice before giving up the day job to chase something that wont work – not all ideas are good ideas.
What would be very interesting is an analysis of the number of startups that turn into sustainable companies in both markets. i.e.companies where the founders actually get a real salary and/or shareholders get a dividend, not all paid for by VC money. You might find the cynicism results in a higher percentage of successful companies (or you might not).
Andrew- yes! I’ll keep an eye our for some.. would be very interesting to see.
“He was saying that other UK entrepreneurs and I should consider moving there”
I would love to move the the US but unfortunately it seems incredibly difficult to get a visa to permanently live and work there. According to this article the options for entrepreneurs are limited, other than marriage, you would need a large sum on money to invest.
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Pulaski%27s_Ways:_How_to_Live_and_Work_in_the_USA
Its tough.
I’m from the UK but have helped start up businesses in the UK and the USA (USA first and now UK) and must add a few points to this from my perspective.
1) If you are a Brit starting a business in the USA you already have some advantages and dis-advantages. The You sound different, that gets people listening, you may have different views, opinions, just thinking different can be seen as a massive plus in America.
2) In the UK if you fail you cannot forget that, and are punished. For instance if you have a ltd company in UK and it goes bankrupt as a director you cannot be another director of a business for some years. In the USA they see that as a positive, as you have gone ‘full circle’ with a business.
3) New businesses in the USA are seen more as something communities and local areas (if they know about them) are proud to support and will do a great PR job for you. In the UK, most people could’nt care less where companies start from.
I’ve also seen some people pitch their businesses in a dragons den type environment and the ‘dragons’ are quick to jump on the simon cowell train and be a pantomime bady. If anyone can appreciate new companies surely, it should be these guys who have built ‘successful’ businesses, right? well they should be ashamed of themselves.
Theres a lot more to this, more than the sound of your voice – but the way people act towards forward thinking innovative individuals here and in the USA.
That really has to change and from the top down, from the government, banks and VC’s (and angels).
I met a government VC who was supposed to be actively encouraging start-ups, but he was not interested really – just in meals, wine, expenses etc.
Interesting stuff. Very thought provoking.
I can’t comment from an entrepreneur’s point of view but something I have noticed as a musician in a band is that in the UK I think we actually prefer to champion the underdog. Bands that come from ‘working class’ backgrounds tend to fair better in popularity stakes rather than those that appear to well formed and perfect too soon. Thinking about The Beatles, Arctic Monkeys & Oasis. They can still be cocky about themselves though.
I think it is partly to do with association and aspirations. Many people in the UK will react better if they see a band or public figure (including an entrepreneur) as being in some way like them.
On the other hand I think people will also easily knock those same figures down easily when they step over the line. I think this is because it makes some people feel better in themselves, they see someone who has made a success messing up and think “I may not be famous or rich but at least I’m not like her”.
It may simply be that there are more people in the US with greater aspirations or that they aspire to be something that they think deep down they can’t achieve and so instead they support someone else in achieving it.
I don’t think the issue is whether VCs or the community is critical. As Mike Butcher correctly stated in his post about SpinVox, we need a critical media and audience to keep everyone aligned and thinking hard. Entrepreneurs have thick skins, we can handle criticism, and some of our best ideas come from a negative critique.
My bugbear is not with negativity, but stupidity. If you are going to criticise something, think about what you are going to say, and come up with a rational and sensible argument. Being homophobic, rude, or demeaning is not only unnecessary and non-constructive, but encourages more mass-criticism in a mob-like way. This is the issue I have. If you are going to be negative about something – and please do if it merits critique – construct your argument in a way that is helpful, rather than in a way that insults the entrepreneur, because – dear community – without the entrepreneurs you would have no TechCrunch, you would have no VCs, you would have no tech industry. So do yourselves a favour, and help the community, increase the average intelligence of the community, or as Paul Carr says, don’t be an anonymous troll.
As someone who has built a business here (and sold it to a large US company) I have to disagree that the UK is a bad place to start a business in. Sure there are many advantages being in the US (e.g. large addressable market being one that many people forget) and there are drawbacks to the UK (tax, etc), but there are many advantages to our culture too (e.g. in general you will find European culture more efficient – can do more per £/$). The point though is you are where you are, and one of the characteristics a successful entrepreneur needs is to work with what he/she’s got, not wish for something they haven’t. Look to what is good in your idea, what is good in the UK that supports your idea, work-around the problems and make it happen – wishing for a star, or a different environment, won’t make it happen.
Come on -can you imagine Twitter or Facebook starting up in the UK?
Needs the energy of where we are heading, which currently is in California? (IMO)
I have lived in the USA (I am British), as well as many other countries including Germany, Holland, and Switzerland.
Anyone thinking that the USA is somehow better, wiser, or stronger simply knows little about the USA or relative comparisons. My guess is that their experience is limited to business trips, and meeting Americans similarly on business trips.
Living somewhere really means reporting to foreign management completely (from first line to the top), paying foreign taxes, having full residence or equivalent documents, and being liable for all local property taxes. That is very different to visiting on a business trip.
If you want some simple facts; America has terrible problems with education, health care, crime, poverty, human rights, drugs, and the economy. The public debt is so high that America depends on foreign investors.
Millions of Americans have no health insurance at all, and millions live in poverty. America has the highest prison population on earth by number, and the second highest by percentage. It one of a few developed nations that executes people. It’s record on Human Rights is so bad, that the USA has lost countless World Court cases and been banned from judging Human Rights at the UN.
So when you start yapping about VC’s and the “British Nation” learn some facts.
@Trever,
We are not talking about the USA as a whole, just about being an entrepreneur in the states versus the UK.
@Julian
I agree we should work with what we’ve got…the grass always seems greener
@Jo our country’s attitude as a whole to success -yes we like to champion the underdog -better story?
Are we talking about world advancing corporations or run of the mill plumbing, shops and companies like that?
World advancing usually still comes from mostly the USA…. Lets not pretend otherwise.
If you really have the idea of the century, then take it to the USA. If you just want to sell business cards – well anywhere for that.
Some great comments on here. I totally disagree with Trevor.
I’m a brit moving to the USA to be with my American partner but I must say that having been in the UK start up scene since 2000 I am not going to miss it. Whilst it has definitely picked up in the last 2 years, the UK suffers from basic structural issues that are not going away anytime soon.
Many of these have already been listed above but my picks are:
- appetite for risk and reward at all levels of funding
- level of understanding of the potential of disruptive technologies
- total amount of capital available
- number of people motivated by equity, who don’t just want a 9-5 job and to get shitfaced at the weekend
- developers who demand 6 figure salaries from start ups (lots of exceptions out there but compare yourselves to your global peers)
- size of the market
IMHO is a cultural and scale problem. The US definitely has its own problems in the space but they come later in the cycle and can be dealt with as the resources are already in place.
I hope the UK can produce more tech leaders but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Hermione
I do not think you can take a slice of the USA (such as entrepreneur activity) and then compare it to another similar slice of British activity. That would be like comparing the door handles in two houses: one which was infested with mice, had noisy neigbours, and a glue factory next door; and one in the countryside with cows, roses, and low crime. So would a comparison about door handles make any sense?
If you want to see what happens when you ask the wrong question in the USA, then watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlnIkhYCS4w
Trevor